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Read This First: Learning How to Program
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Forum rule Nº 15 is strictly enforced in this subforum.
Forum rule Nº 15 is strictly enforced in this subforum.
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
Actually, requests are forbidden by the rules.
I wanna lots of mov al,0xb
"just not into this RA stuffz"
"just not into this RA stuffz"
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
are you kind of joking ^^m0skit0 wrote:Give it a couple of years.
he could achieve such a thing way faster (with some motivation that is)
years aren't needed to code some C and retrieve weather from the web, it's possible in a couple of months seriously
with a couple of years way more than just that would be possible
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Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
Without any previous programming knowledge and on PSP? You're actually underestimating your ignorance when you didn't know how to program. Anyway it obviously depends on how much time you put into it. If you put 6h/day, maybe two months will be enough if you learn fast (which is not the case for 90% of people regarding C). But most likely, you're not going to put 6h/day for it. If you can hold a couple of hours when starting, that would be a miracle.
I've been teaching programming for university students for several years, so I definitely know what I'm talking about here. Even such people, who got 2h of programming per day plus extra hour with me on the afternoon still got a mediocre programming level (and I'm talking about Pascal which is easier to learn than C) and would never been able to program for PSP at the end of the year (and most of them even would not at the end of their second year, trust me).
Look that I'm talking about learning to program, not being "guided" (aka copy-pasting code) by other people.
I've been teaching programming for university students for several years, so I definitely know what I'm talking about here. Even such people, who got 2h of programming per day plus extra hour with me on the afternoon still got a mediocre programming level (and I'm talking about Pascal which is easier to learn than C) and would never been able to program for PSP at the end of the year (and most of them even would not at the end of their second year, trust me).
Look that I'm talking about learning to program, not being "guided" (aka copy-pasting code) by other people.
I wanna lots of mov al,0xb
"just not into this RA stuffz"
"just not into this RA stuffz"
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
well you don't know when I personally started programming, and I don't know how in the world it'd be possible to program with copy-pasting
yeah sure well personally I got fond of it by the day I started and spent the more time I could doing it since then (I even lack sleep sometimes because of it)
Anyway that's just to say programming's really easy it's just a matter of beginning to learn one language to get started, if we got some motivation ^^
But lots of people have way more pbs learning it I know lol maybe they aren't that motivated no idea
I don't like the way everybody mystifies lots of things, saying "This is so hard" or whatever, because often when I get to try it out it just turns out I can do it easily (excepted for really complicated things requiring experience / hard work ^^)
I don't mean to upset anyone or anything sorry if I did, I just mean people willing to program shouldn't let go so easily
because I did that mistake before, trying to learn C from some boring book and it was way more difficult than on a computer, and I didn't even had time to learn how loops are magic things (got bored before)
yeah sure well personally I got fond of it by the day I started and spent the more time I could doing it since then (I even lack sleep sometimes because of it)
- Big block ^^
Anyway that's just to say programming's really easy it's just a matter of beginning to learn one language to get started, if we got some motivation ^^
But lots of people have way more pbs learning it I know lol maybe they aren't that motivated no idea
I don't like the way everybody mystifies lots of things, saying "This is so hard" or whatever, because often when I get to try it out it just turns out I can do it easily (excepted for really complicated things requiring experience / hard work ^^)
I don't mean to upset anyone or anything sorry if I did, I just mean people willing to program shouldn't let go so easily
because I did that mistake before, trying to learn C from some boring book and it was way more difficult than on a computer, and I didn't even had time to learn how loops are magic things (got bored before)
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
Without having practicing a programming language ever before? You must be some kind of genius then.Yosh wrote:I started learning C on my own during January this year, whenever I had time and when I had free time before class, and finished maybe 2-3 weeks later (but still needed to pratice then)
So if I understood correctlty, you didn't know a thing about programming but you started learning programming on January, made a game using SDL on PC, ported it to PSP, lost time with PSP's SDL bugs, and finished in the beginning of March? Wow, you must be some kind of genius then.Yosh wrote:anyway I finished porting it in the beginning of March
So you didn't even know OOP and learned most of C++ in one single evening? Wow, you must be some kind of genius then.Yosh wrote:I Iearned most of C++ in one single evening, aka maybe 12h in a row I don't know exactly
Already got there? Nice then, although I'm kind of disappointed you didn't reverse engineer Windows on a couple of hours.Yosh wrote:This time I'm finishing learning basis in x86 asm
Give him a slap and send him here. Just FYI, most games are written in C++, and almost all (if not all) operating systems are written 90% in C. C/C++ is most likely fastest language out there. So no, they're not out-dated. They're just old.Yosh wrote: a teacher told me C / C++ are kinda out-dated languages
I wanna lots of mov al,0xb
"just not into this RA stuffz"
"just not into this RA stuffz"
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
nope I just learned maple programming in class about the month before and then practiced algorithmic with funny not too hard math pbs on http://projecteuler.net/ as my teacher said it's a good idea (see ^^)m0skit0 wrote:Without having practicing a programming language ever before? You must be some kind of genius then.
well I don't think maple algorithmic is so much programming, and I ported this game so didn't make it, it was just to learnm0skit0 wrote:So if I understood correctlty, you didn't know a thing about programming but you started learning programming on January, made a game using SDL on PC, ported it to PSP, lost time with PSP's SDL bugs, and finished in the beginning of March? Wow, you must be some kind of genius then.
I learned the way C++ works but never made OOP with it yet, it's kinda useless for the Gui I made and so what it is is only what's so called 'bad C++ programming' until I make smthg where OOP could be usefulm0skit0 wrote:So you didn't even know OOP and learned most of C++ in one single evening? Wow, you must be some kind of genius then.
Anyway learning a language isn't what makes a person masterize it, to do so much experience is required, same goes for C
some additional possibilities added with C++ aren't so much to learn, the harder part is certainly to catch the OOP good habits I'd say, what I did not yet, I didn't need it anyway
I said ' basis in x86 asm' and am just talking about thatm0skit0 wrote:Already got there? Nice then, although I'm kind of disappointed you didn't reverse engineer Windows on a couple of hours.
This document's far from being able to teach all asm by itself naturally, and is just some kinda introduction
Information is available anywhere, any random person could open an asm introduction and start reading it, that's why they're introductions made to be understood by anybody
I do know about all of that, why do you think exactly I chose C / C++ lolm0skit0 wrote:Give him a slap and send him here. Just FYI, most games are written in C++, and almost all (if not all) operating systems are written 90% in C. C/C++ is most likely fastest language out there. So no, they're not out-dated. They're just old.
He said it's not because they're popular that they're so good, even if they have their own strong points, but I think he just didn't express properly what he meant
He's just a functional programming freak I'd say ^^ but that makes me want to try out functional programming
I'm a **** | liar you say ? sure I imagined such a glorious story woo you think I'd tell such trivial things if I wanted to show off
being better | older doesn't provide any right to mock others shame on you
proof about what I'm saying sure does exist you wanna restart your carrier in the police maybe
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Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
that's m0skit0's modus operandi for you.
i kind of like it actually, but it takes an Englishman to truly master sarcasm.
if anything i guess he was implying ignorance on your part. i knew a guy too who borrowed a book from me and claimed to have learned C++ in one day. (he knew a bit C and programming from earlier) this when i go *facepalm*... it just sounds too unbelievably ignorant to say it as if he know everything there is to know about the subject, when in reality he just grasped the very basics of OOP. A small part of a much larger whole.
and sure take C89 for instance, there's only 32 keywords to it, and memorizing how each work is doable in a short amount of time, but even then there's much more to programming in C then just knowing the language constructs.
It takes patience and dedication to become good at well... anything really. And so blatantly ignoring this fact of life makes you *sound* ignorant. I don't know if you really are, but there you have your explanation for the mockery received.
Just poking around a bit in one language and jumping another bright and sparkling one, kind of makes one a jack of all trades and a master of none. nothing wrong with that, but getting bored or lacking patience is a sure way to guarantee not becoming good at something specific.
---
I wanted to do a little comparison *cough*rant*cough* between computer languages and natural languages. Natural languages have grammar and a vocabulary. Programming languages have syntax and keywords. The vocabulary for say German has something like 40 000 words, much bigger than the 32 keywords in C89. The grammar is also more complex. With some effort it takes around 3-4 years to become adequately proficient. But even then you might not be proficient enough to catch all the words and you might not get jokes etc. and more advanced language constructs. Now take C again. You can manage to learn it in about a semester (or two) at an equal level of proficiency, unlike German you'd know the entire vocabulary and grammar.
But then you'd pretty much be perfectly proficient wouldn't you? Not really. One interesting thing about languages with limited vocabulary is that you need other ways to properly express things. And so the way you combine words become more complex. Indeed to actually do anything in C involves calling a function. And how you go about it In C this would be the methodology. And this is why even knowing the entire C language doesn't mean mastering it. You could spend a full year studying nothing but maths and programming methodology and you'd still not have learned everything, far from it. To top it off there's a bunch of library APIs, OS environments and CPU architectures you'd want to know about too.
Ever noticed how people who presumably know C ask why printf() won't work on PSP? Or why their graphics have nasty random spots and they don't know why because the code "should have worked, dang it". Clearly there's more to programming than knowing C.
But the good thing is that maths and methods is something you can use regardless of computer language and so you can use this knowledge in any of them. Also if the syntax is similar between two languages you can cut down the time it takes to learn a new language. So learning programming for the first time takes more time than learning more of them. For instance knowing either Java or C++ will radically cut down the time needed to learn the other.
Too bad the same isn't true for natural languages. Some grammar knowledge can be useful learning a second language, but mostly you'll have to learn everything from scratch each time, since there's so few similarities. Notice how I said big vocabulary means there's less complexity to the actual language? Well the grammar might be relatively simple but knowing english grammar won't do you much good learning spanish grammar. even if the syntax was simple and similar, there'd be a whole bunch of new keywords to learn. Anyways thanks to relatively simple grammar, means you're more proficient at a natural language after having spent time learning the vocabulary.
*looks over* WTH am I saying here anyway?
i kind of like it actually, but it takes an Englishman to truly master sarcasm.
if anything i guess he was implying ignorance on your part. i knew a guy too who borrowed a book from me and claimed to have learned C++ in one day. (he knew a bit C and programming from earlier) this when i go *facepalm*... it just sounds too unbelievably ignorant to say it as if he know everything there is to know about the subject, when in reality he just grasped the very basics of OOP. A small part of a much larger whole.
and sure take C89 for instance, there's only 32 keywords to it, and memorizing how each work is doable in a short amount of time, but even then there's much more to programming in C then just knowing the language constructs.
It takes patience and dedication to become good at well... anything really. And so blatantly ignoring this fact of life makes you *sound* ignorant. I don't know if you really are, but there you have your explanation for the mockery received.
Just poking around a bit in one language and jumping another bright and sparkling one, kind of makes one a jack of all trades and a master of none. nothing wrong with that, but getting bored or lacking patience is a sure way to guarantee not becoming good at something specific.
---
I wanted to do a little comparison *cough*rant*cough* between computer languages and natural languages. Natural languages have grammar and a vocabulary. Programming languages have syntax and keywords. The vocabulary for say German has something like 40 000 words, much bigger than the 32 keywords in C89. The grammar is also more complex. With some effort it takes around 3-4 years to become adequately proficient. But even then you might not be proficient enough to catch all the words and you might not get jokes etc. and more advanced language constructs. Now take C again. You can manage to learn it in about a semester (or two) at an equal level of proficiency, unlike German you'd know the entire vocabulary and grammar.
But then you'd pretty much be perfectly proficient wouldn't you? Not really. One interesting thing about languages with limited vocabulary is that you need other ways to properly express things. And so the way you combine words become more complex. Indeed to actually do anything in C involves calling a function. And how you go about it In C this would be the methodology. And this is why even knowing the entire C language doesn't mean mastering it. You could spend a full year studying nothing but maths and programming methodology and you'd still not have learned everything, far from it. To top it off there's a bunch of library APIs, OS environments and CPU architectures you'd want to know about too.
Ever noticed how people who presumably know C ask why printf() won't work on PSP? Or why their graphics have nasty random spots and they don't know why because the code "should have worked, dang it". Clearly there's more to programming than knowing C.
But the good thing is that maths and methods is something you can use regardless of computer language and so you can use this knowledge in any of them. Also if the syntax is similar between two languages you can cut down the time it takes to learn a new language. So learning programming for the first time takes more time than learning more of them. For instance knowing either Java or C++ will radically cut down the time needed to learn the other.
Too bad the same isn't true for natural languages. Some grammar knowledge can be useful learning a second language, but mostly you'll have to learn everything from scratch each time, since there's so few similarities. Notice how I said big vocabulary means there's less complexity to the actual language? Well the grammar might be relatively simple but knowing english grammar won't do you much good learning spanish grammar. even if the syntax was simple and similar, there'd be a whole bunch of new keywords to learn. Anyways thanks to relatively simple grammar, means you're more proficient at a natural language after having spent time learning the vocabulary.
*looks over* WTH am I saying here anyway?
"If you have specific questions ... don't hesitate to ask as the more generic the question is the more philosophic the answer will be" - PSPWizard
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
as I said sure it takes way more time to truly masterize a language, but there's no need to masterize it just to use a few libraries
It's up to us if we wanna master it truly or not, who the heck cares about that, I find it funny to learn how different languages work that's why I just seek to masterize their syntax firstly, one can do whatever the heck's wished on his free time, it's mean to try discouraging him
I think knowing a language doesn't mean anything actually, because a language is a means of expression, but using it properly's another story
A compiler does know its corresponding language too, but isn't actually able to get if it's properly used or not for instance
anyway I do speak fluently even if not perfectly german, while I'm just a frenchman so know how learning foreign languages is, and do not understand how people can ask questions such as "why won't printf work on my psp"
I do understand such a reaction like moskito's, but it's just caused by a wrong interpretation
the purpose of language is to be able to understand what one's got in mind, not to divert it from its meaning
that's why languages cannot be literally translated, and need an adaptation to express what its author truly meant when formulating it
the mere existence of ambiguity's meant to haunt us forever anyway so there's no need to play its game
It's up to us if we wanna master it truly or not, who the heck cares about that, I find it funny to learn how different languages work that's why I just seek to masterize their syntax firstly, one can do whatever the heck's wished on his free time, it's mean to try discouraging him
I think knowing a language doesn't mean anything actually, because a language is a means of expression, but using it properly's another story
A compiler does know its corresponding language too, but isn't actually able to get if it's properly used or not for instance
anyway I do speak fluently even if not perfectly german, while I'm just a frenchman so know how learning foreign languages is, and do not understand how people can ask questions such as "why won't printf work on my psp"
I do understand such a reaction like moskito's, but it's just caused by a wrong interpretation
the purpose of language is to be able to understand what one's got in mind, not to divert it from its meaning
that's why languages cannot be literally translated, and need an adaptation to express what its author truly meant when formulating it
the mere existence of ambiguity's meant to haunt us forever anyway so there's no need to play its game
Re: Read This First: Learning How to Program
m0skit0 wrote:Without having practicing a programming language ever before? You must be some kind of genius then.Yosh wrote:I started learning C on my own during January this year, whenever I had time and when I had free time before class, and finished maybe 2-3 weeks later (but still needed to pratice then)
So if I understood correctlty, you didn't know a thing about programming but you started learning programming on January, made a game using SDL on PC, ported it to PSP, lost time with PSP's SDL bugs, and finished in the beginning of March? Wow, you must be some kind of genius then.Yosh wrote:anyway I finished porting it in the beginning of March
So you didn't even know OOP and learned most of C++ in one single evening? Wow, you must be some kind of genius then.Yosh wrote:I Iearned most of C++ in one single evening, aka maybe 12h in a row I don't know exactly
Already got there? Nice then, although I'm kind of disappointed you didn't reverse engineer Windows on a couple of hours.Yosh wrote:This time I'm finishing learning basis in x86 asm
Give him a slap and send him here. Just FYI, most games are written in C++, and almost all (if not all) operating systems are written 90% in C. C/C++ is most likely fastest language out there. So no, they're not out-dated. They're just old.Yosh wrote: a teacher told me C / C++ are kinda out-dated languages
Big lol !
I learned x86, but it didn't took an evening for me !
C++ can't take an evening... Oh, yes, it took you an evening to print a hello world !
And even if you read the stuff on the siteduzero.com which is explain the very basis, it's almost impossible to read it fully in 1 evening.
Don't be foolish, printing a hello world in both asm and c++ don't means master a language.
Or you just copied code from another programs, that's doable.
Funny stuff
<yifanlu> I enjoy being loud and obnoxious
<yifanlu> rooting an android is like getting a hooker pregnant
<xerpi> I sometimes think I should leave all this stressing **** and be a farmer instead
<yifanlu> I enjoy being loud and obnoxious
<yifanlu> rooting an android is like getting a hooker pregnant
<xerpi> I sometimes think I should leave all this stressing **** and be a farmer instead